Might New Builds Harm Your Market? These Areas Are Most at Threat

Dave:
How assured are builders in immediately’s market? Each single month we get new information that tells us precisely that, and also you may really be stunned what the numbers say and the ways in which they may impression you, even should you’re not a builder and by no means wish to construct a home in your life. Hey everybody, it’s Dave Meyer, host of On the Market, and immediately I’m joined by BiggerPockets Information Analyst, Austin Wolf, to interrupt down the most recent builder sentiment report and what it means for consumers and traders. We’re taking a look at which markets are seeing surges and permits and the place builders are betting large, and we’ll additionally dig into what this implies for the way forward for costs, stock, lease progress, and what’s taking place within the new residence market and with builders can really spill into the broader housing marketplace for purchase and maintain and flipping traders. So let’s get into it. Austin Wolf, welcome again to the podcast. Thanks for being right here.

Austin:
Comfortable to be right here, Dave.

Dave:
Alright, properly we’re going to be speaking about builder sentiment, builder confidence, what’s occurring in development, however let’s be actual, most of us are usually not builders. I’ve by no means constructed one thing from the bottom up. I don’t assume you may have both. So inform us why does this even matter to the typical actual property investor who’s in all probability simply doing purchase and maintain? There could also be some flip investing.

Austin:
I feel it issues both in case you are an current investor otherwise you’re making an attempt to get your foot within the door. It issues each methods. If builders are optimistic, they’re going to be constructing extra buildings, which means there’s going to be extra provide coming your manner. And if demand progress stays fixed, however there may be extra provide, that places a downward strain on costs. There’s simply extra buildings for individuals to purchase. I noticed that personally after I was buying a home in Fayetteville. There may be lots of development there. Builders are very optimistic in that individual market, so there was quite a bit to select from, which suggests builders gave me concessions and in order that was good for me to get my foot within the door. Conversely, now that I’m an current investor, I’m now feeling the opposite facet of that. Homes there aren’t going to understand as a lot as they’re in different markets the place they’re not constructing as a lot. So whether or not builders are optimistic or pessimistic nationally. After which in fact in your native market, that’s going to have an effect on value progress and in case your homes are going to be appreciating sooner or slower,

Dave:
And as you mentioned, it’s going to be very regional. So we’re going to speak about immediately lots of tendencies, however I feel Austin’s ready some actually good analysis for all of us to grasp kind of what’s taking place on a nationwide degree as a result of that in fact issues. It does. Quite a lot of the house builders are nationwide. The massive ones most are publicly traded corporations, however clearly we’ll speak about a few of the areas too. However why do we’d like to consider builder sentiment and confidence moderately than simply the info? It sounds slightly fluffy or delicate to speak about. It’s not like onerous information. So why can we measure this and what’s vital about this versus monitoring permits or development begins or one thing slightly bit extra

Austin:
Tangible I feel is vital to trace the tangible metrics, however they don’t let you know all the pieces. For instance, one of many, I suppose downsides of the info that I’ll be going over additional, how a lot development has really began in Q1 of 2025. One of many downsides of that’s it’s attainable {that a} market circumstances have modified for the reason that time they obtained their allow accredited and the time that they broke floor. So even when they obtained a allow in center of final 12 months or the top of final 12 months and so they began development this 12 months, market circumstances might need modified and so they may be extra pessimistic, however they have already got the financing in place and so they’re going to proceed constructing anyway although they’re slightly pessimistic. So they could construct much less sooner or later although they’ve already began developing proper now.

Dave:
This can be a basic instance of a lead indicator. It’s one thing we speak about in economics information. It’s one thing that helps us predict future information. We don’t know precisely. It’s not a one-to-one ratio, but it surely provides you clues about what’s going to occur. So hopefully you may see from what Austin’s informed us up to now that the sentiment confidence information, it’s good for predicting what’s going to occur in development. Development actually issues for each investor, whether or not you’re constructing or not. So perhaps give us some historic context to what’s been occurring with builder confidence over the past couple of years.

Austin:
So the index is rated from zero to 100, 100 being essentially the most optimistic, zero being essentially the most pessimistic. Something under 50 is on the facet of pessimism. Something above 50 is on the facet of optimism. Now, from the center of 2020 to the center of 2022, we had builder sentiment of about 80. So builders had been extraordinarily optimistic throughout that point and so they constructed quite a bit, which I’m positive is not any shock to anybody. After which when rates of interest hiked in the midst of 2022, that builder sentiment dropped drastically. And ever since then it’s kind of been oscillating between, it is a tough estimate, however between 35 and 55, relying on seasons, relying on tariffs, relying on development prices, relying on lots of issues, it’s actually onerous to pinpoint why it’s oscillating, however it’s oscillating between 35 and 55. As of proper now, the builder sentiment rating is 40. So builders are slightly extra pessimistic, however they’re not utterly pessimistic. They had been when rates of interest had been first hiked in 2022.

Dave:
So 50 is regular, proper?

Austin:
Sure. 50 is impartial.

Dave:
The long-term common, mainly.

Austin:
Sure.

Dave:
Yeah. And so I suppose the factor that all the time kind of confuses me about this, and I feel clearly the reply goes to be macroeconomic circumstances, however we hear a lot that there’s this scarcity of housing in america. So is it simply rates of interest like constructing prices that’s inflicting decrease sentiment? As a result of it looks like kind of should you actually zoom out to the broadest attainable lens, builders must be feeling fairly good in the event that they know that we’d like lots of housing within the us.

Austin:
Yeah, affordability additionally issues. Sure, there’s demand for housing, however there may be lots of demand for reasonably priced housing and in case you are solely in a position to construct a constructing that’s a lot larger than the median residence value to your given metro, you’re going to have much less demand for it. So issues like rates of interest have an effect on individuals’s talents to purchase a home, issues like inflation, and likewise issues like tariffs can have an effect on demand for these homes as a result of costs will rise. In order that impacts builder optimism or pessimism.

Dave:
Alright. One query whenever you have a look at the sentiment, we have now in all probability individuals on the present construct a pair homes, construct a pair multifamily. Is it that or is that this actually the large guys?

Austin:
These are principally the large guys. In case you’re a house builder and also you had been reached out to fill out this survey, I suppose you’ll be thought of one of many large guys. However should you construct one residence each single 12 months, you’re in all probability not included on this survey. So these are primarily the large guys. I’m positive that there are center dimension and doubtlessly even small dimension builders in there as properly, but it surely’s actually simply the large guys. So

Dave:
Simply maintain this in thoughts, should you had been speaking to a smaller builder, perhaps do city infill one or two plots a 12 months, perhaps they’re slightly extra nimble, they will get offers extra effectively and that they’re doing higher or perhaps they’re doing worse. They don’t have the leverage to purchase supplies at cheaper prices and they also’re much less environment friendly. So maintain that every one in thoughts. So whenever you’re taking a look at this information, Austin, it’s simply a median, proper? You don’t know which builders are assured, which aren’t, proper?

Austin:
That’s right.

Dave:
Ah, that’s too dangerous. I want we might discover out questioning if there’s just a few persons are actually bullish and a few persons are actually bearish. That simply looks like the financial system proper now. Some persons are actually excited in regards to the inventory market as of late. Some persons are actually pessimistic about it. And so I’m simply questioning if the typical doesn’t totally mirror the variety of potential opinions from

Austin:
Builders. I’m joyful you introduced this up as a result of that’s what I feel is going on. Once you have a look at the builder sentiment and it’s been oscillating over the previous three years, that’s what I feel is being mirrored there. Builders being extra assured and builders being much less assured. Such as you mentioned, some builders are perhaps considering, okay, rates of interest are what they’re, however individuals nonetheless want a house to dwell in. Folks nonetheless wish to purchase. There’s nonetheless going to be demand, whereas different builders are much less assured in that. So the place you’ve been at over the previous three years mentally relating to your actual property investing is probably going an analogous thought course of that builders are having as properly. Ought to I construct proper now? I don’t learn about these macroeconomic circumstances, perhaps let’s wait it out one other six months. Whereas perhaps different builders are like, screw it, we’re constructing now. And in order that’s I feel doubtlessly one clarification of why this builder competence has been oscillating between kind of 35 and 55 between pessimism and a extra impartial stance.

Dave:
So let’s discuss slightly bit about a few of the regional tendencies. I assume you may’t get that from sentiment information. So do you must have a look at development permits to grasp and dig into kind of the regional variations?

Austin:
Sure. Sure. We don’t get the builder sentiment on the regional degree. So as an alternative what I checked out was first constructing permits.

Dave:
Okay,

Austin:
After which second, what number of items began development in Q1?

Dave:
All proper, so what are you seeing in there? Largest, broadest tendencies. We’ve talked quite a bit in regards to the southeast, it was sizzling, now it’s slowing down. What are the large stuff you’re

Austin:
Observing? So should you have a look at the permits that had been accredited in Q1 of 2025, I then examine these to the permits that had been accredited in Q1 of 2024, similar time final 12 months. And what I discovered was actually fascinating, Orlando had the very best distinction between permits accredited this 12 months and permits accredited final 12 months decline, proper? Improve.

Dave:
Oh, they’re nonetheless constructing extra in Orlando.

Austin:
Okay. They’re nonetheless allowing extra in Orlando, which blows my thoughts. That’s

Dave:
Shocking,

Austin:
Very shocking. What that tells me is a minimum of a great variety of builders there assume that demand goes to proceed to develop on this market and catch up.

Dave:
Nicely that’s really fascinating. Somebody was telling me on one of many podcasts not too long ago about how inland Florida is definitely doing properly since you hear this stuff about Florida basically and lots of the persons are being pushed off the coast due to larger insurance coverage premiums. The condominium markets are falling aside and lots of elements of Florida, however maybe that is intrastate migration the place persons are transferring off the coast, Orlando, which has much less threat of pure disasters and possibly doesn’t have the identical insurance coverage premium will increase. Perhaps that’s simply doing properly. Anyway, stunned to listen to that regardless.

Austin:
Yeah, we’ll discuss extra about Florida on the finish of this. Okay, very, very fascinating information

Dave:
There. Yeah, yeah. I’m curious.

Austin:
Okay, so what else? Quantity two was Lafayette, Indiana and Lafayette Indiana. It’s about an hour outdoors of Indianapolis. It’s the place Purdue College is and so they’ve been rising like loopy, a minimum of the metro space has, there’s a massive analysis park there. The school is constant to develop and it’s simply outdoors of Indianapolis, which is among the quickest rising Midwest markets in America proper now. They’ve had a file breaking variety of permits accredited over Q1. Essentially the most quantity of items they’ve ever permitted in a given 12 months was 2000. That was in 2023. They permitted 2000 items to be constructed Q1 of 2025. They’ve already accredited 1800 items. Oh my god, nearly their earlier file in a single quarter. In order that they’re on course to approve essentially the most quantity of items they’ve ever had this 12 months.

Dave:
So how do you make sense of this? Since you hear lots of people, particularly on social media going on the market and saying, oh, simply comply with what the builders are doing, comply with what Starbucks is doing or Lowe’s is doing. I’ve by no means achieved that. I suppose it is sensible to me in some respects that these individuals have lots of analysis. They’ve in all probability total analytics groups doing this, however after I hear that I’m run from that market, that simply worries me. So how do you interpret that?

Austin:
Yeah, properly bringing it again to the start of this dialog, when there may be extra provide, it places downward strain on costs. So perhaps that’s good should you’re a very new investor and also you wish to get your foot within the door, there’s about to be a wave of provide in these markets, which builders will possible have to supply concessions simply to promote their properties.

Speaker 3:
However

Austin:
On the flip facet, your property goes to understand slower than it might should you invested in nearly some other market with good demand.

Dave:
I simply wish to kind of clarify perhaps mechanically how a few of these issues might spill into the broader housing market. So simply on this instance that we’re speaking about right here, Lafayette, Indiana, perhaps there’s sufficient demand to fulfill the provision figuring out actually nothing in regards to the metropolis. I’m already skeptical based mostly on simply Austin telling us that they’ve already nearly meet their file within the first quarter. However you may say, okay, I’m not occupied with new builds. I already personal rental properties there. The best way it might spill over is mainly that, like Austin mentioned, lots of these builders are going to begin providing concessions and they’re in contrast to different sellers that they’re not going to be affected person. They’re going to try to be very aggressive in providing concessions and transferring stock as a result of they’ve lots of money locked up into these offers. And so when that occurs, it makes the relative worth of current houses go down.
As a result of I feel typically talking, for almost all of individuals, all issues being equal, should you’re introduced with a brand new residence and an current residence with related options in an analogous location, you’re going to choose the brand new residence. And so should you see new residence costs begin to fall, that may actually spill into the present market in regular instances earlier than the pandemic, new houses made up solely 10 or perhaps 15% of residence gross sales. However since stock is so low, that has actually climbed. And that’s kind of why I’m excited to speak to you about this Austin, is as a result of the impression of latest residence gross sales on current houses, in my view, has grown and goes to remain excessive so long as this development information stays excessive. In order that’s one factor. The second factor is that if these residence builders aren’t in a position to promote stuff, they could begin renting them out and that might have an effect on the rectal market. However except you’ve seen any information about that, Austin, I feel we’re in all probability nonetheless a number of steps away from that.

Austin:
I feel we’re a number of steps away from that, however I’ll maintain my eye on it. That will be very fascinating.

Dave:
Okay, nice. And I kind of went on this diatribe about Lafayette, Indiana. Inform us another regional tendencies you’re seeing.

Austin:
Yeah, for positive. Columbus, Ohio was quantity three on the listing, which is fascinating. They permitted essentially the most quantity of items. Final 12 months it was nearly 14,000 new items they permitted in 2024. As of Q1, they permitted simply over 4,000. So if they allow 4,000 per quarter for all 4 quarters, they’ll beat the file this 12 months for an estimated 16,000 items. In order that’s fascinating. We’ll see in the event that they beat the file this 12 months for many quantity of items permitted. However I feel the story there may be should you’re an investor, you’ve in all probability heard of Columbus, Ohio, and so have all of the builders and so have all of the individuals which can be transferring there. So I feel it’s an awesome market with good fundamentals, however the phrase is out, so that you’re going to face some competitors

Dave:
There. Alright, properly Austin, this has been an awesome overview of builder sentiment and a few regional tendencies. I wish to get into some questions on what traders ought to do with this information for their very own portfolio and their very own investing, however we do need to take a fast break. We’ll be proper again. Welcome again to On the Market. I’m right here with Austin Wolf speaking about development information Earlier than the break, Austin enlightened us with some sentiment telling us that though we’ve seen actually oscillating diversified shopper sentiment over the past couple of years, it’s comparatively down proper now at a 40 the place 50 is regular. And so Austin, I’m curious should you might simply inform us slightly bit about are there markets that you simply assume are ripe for alternative or does this normal development setting provide you with pause about investing, not essentially constructing, however simply individuals investing when there may be this threat of oversupply, a minimum of in a few of the markets you shared with us.

Austin:
In the beginning, I all the time assume by way of demand, are individuals transferring? There are jobs going there. I like to consider that first. If the reply is sure, then I might additionally think about taking a look at provide. Okay, is the phrase out? What number of builders are constructing homes right here? How straightforward is it to get new provide on-line? How straightforward is it to construct? For instance, the best market I can discuss of is Fayetteville, Arkansas. I lived there and acquired a home there.
And the expansion there that’s taking place is it’s intimidating. Giant numbers of persons are transferring there and likewise it is rather flat and it’s so straightforward to construct there that a lot of new houses are at the moment being constructed there to soak up that incoming demand. So what I might recommend traders do is whenever you’re taking a look at demand, okay, nice inhabitants is rising, jobs are rising. However then I might additionally suggest both going to the constructing allow survey information, which you’ll be able to simply discover by Googling constructing allow survey after which discover what number of items had been permitted in your given market that 12 months. Or if you wish to make it straightforward on your self, perhaps do what I did. Simply go to speak GPT and ask what number of items are being permitted to your given market. And it’s not too unaccurate, I’ll put it that manner. Simply check out what number of buildings are going up after which perhaps have a look at a number of different markets simply to get a way of, okay, Austin is constructing this quantity of items. Orlando is constructing this quantity of items. The place does my market match into that? Are they even reaching these numbers?
St. Louis isn’t, okay, nice, perhaps they’re not constructing as a lot as Kansas Metropolis and perhaps persons are transferring to the suburbs there. Perhaps it shouldn’t mud within the suburbs. There look like lots of jobs rising in that particular space. In order that’s what I might suggest for traders. Keep watch over demand, but additionally regulate provide.

Dave:
That’s nice. And truthfully, it’s really easy now with chat GPT, it’s wonderful that you possibly can do that. I all the time have discovered absolute provide numbers slightly complicated 2000 items. What does that imply? It’s like that might imply something. So I do know you and I’ve talked about this up to now, however I suppose there’s methods to match it. I’ve seen individuals examine variety of new items to the variety of current items. That’s a typical technique to do it. I’ve seen individuals examine it to the variety of new jobs which can be created. I’ve seen it in comparison with inhabitants progress. Is there a manner that you simply want to do it?

Austin:
After I ran this evaluation, I initially did variety of new items being constructed divided by the whole quantity of items.

Dave:
Okay,

Austin:
So what p.c The whole provide is coming on-line

Dave:
To progress fee. Principally you’re simply determining how shortly it’s rising in comparison with current dimension.

Austin:
And I do actually like your suggestion of evaluating variety of new items to the variety of new jobs within the space. I feel I’ll try this for my subsequent evaluation. That’d be very fascinating to see what occurs.

Dave:
Okay, nice. So what did you have a look at this? Do you assume there are markets with explicit alternatives as a result of they’ve a few of these sturdy fundamentals, however comparatively low ranges of constructing?

Austin:
I first regarded on the variety of markets which have the very best p.c of development, and what I discovered blew my thoughts and I couldn’t consider it. And I feel that there’s a story there, however I’ll first discuss in regards to the markets that didn’t blow my thoughts. The markets which have had essentially the most quantity of latest development in Q1 of this 12 months in comparison with their whole quantity of items are Provo, Utah, Kansas Metropolis, Missouri, and Richmond, Virginia. And should you’ve heard something about Utah, it’s a quick rising market and Provo is the place one of many large schools is and so they simply merely don’t have sufficient housing items there. And so builders try to repair that. Kansas Metropolis can be rising, so no shock there. After which Richmond, Virginia, capital of Virginia, and there’s lots of finance jobs there. I haven’t achieved a deep dive into that but, but it surely may be value taking a look at if builders are fairly assured in individuals transferring there. I’ll say this information is only for multifamily information. The information I’m particularly speaking about proper now, this doesn’t embrace single household houses. It solely features a multifamily properties.

Dave:
Is it simply that the info isn’t out there or simply that’s what you checked out?

Austin:
Yeah, so with allow information, allow information, you may break it out by single household, multifamily, duplex, making an attempt quadplex. I discover that very, very useful, which is why I all the time look there first. CoStar information is the one which I’m speaking about. They solely concentrate on multifamily.

Dave:
That’s simply why. All proper. Nicely, we do need to take another fast break, however once we get again, we’re going to speak about the important thing takeaways for traders and what you must tactically be eager about together with your portfolio. We’ll be proper again. Welcome again to On the Market. I’m right here with analyst Austin Wolf speaking about a few of our new provide facet information and what traders must be doing about it. So Austin, should you’re only a common purchase and maintain investor and also you personal a property or two, let’s say in a median Midwest metropolis, I’m going to choose Kansas Metropolis. In case you’re eager about shopping for, how would you utilize this info in information to your personal portfolio?

Austin:
First off, I might simply double test and guarantee that there may be inhabitants progress within the explicit space that you simply’re occupied with investing in or perhaps job progress and likewise have a look at the provision information. So let’s say for instance, you picked Kansas Metropolis as a result of it’s a rising market. Nicely, Kansas Metropolis can be one of many prime markets that has began development on essentially the most quantity of items relative to its whole provide in Q1 for multifamily. So should you purchase a multifamily constructing, you’re going to have some competitors from another multifamily builders. Nevertheless, single household buildings are slightly bit totally different from multifamily. They’re a unique kind of renter.
These are those that need a yard. These are those that need airspace between their 4 partitions and aren’t dwelling subsequent to a neighbor within the subsequent wall over. So in case you are contemplating that market, you would need to go slightly extra hyperlocal. Let’s say that they’re developing lots of new multifamily buildings in Kansas Metropolis. The place are they really developing them? In case you are in search of that single household or perhaps even duplex, is it subsequent to or is it going to be subsequent to those new large multifamily complexes that they’re constructing? If not, perhaps that is going to work as a result of the individuals which can be going to be renting in these large multifamily buildings might not essentially be the renters that you will be attracting and your single household home.

Dave:
After which let’s run via an instance of a market maybe with reverse dynamics. I’m not going to guess one. I’d in all probability guess fallacious. So perhaps you possibly can present us with what,

Austin:
Oh man, in all probability Los Angeles. They only make it so onerous to construct there. Okay, yeah, inform us about it. Yeah, the time it takes to get a allow accredited and to begin floor break after which perhaps end it’s on common 4 years, which is among the highest within the nation, a minimum of for a big market utilizing Los Angeles for example, it’s onerous to construct there. Builders are going to be constructing much less there. So perhaps you wish to decide a market with excessive demand, but it surely’s onerous to construct. In case you’re in a position to get into that market, you’re possible going to see rather more appreciation in that market than you’ll in say a Kansas Metropolis or a spot the place it’s simpler to construct

Speaker 3:
Like

Austin:
Fayetteville, Arkansas. So locations which can be geographically constrained like Seattle for instance, or they’re sandwiched between the ocean and hills and the mountains. I’m going to make use of Salt Lake Metropolis for example too. Perhaps it’s slightly extra friendlier to builders there, but it surely’s nonetheless sandwiched between a lake and a mountain. It’s going to run out of room to construct, and so long as there’s demand there, costs will respect. So I might have a look at geographic constraints after which how pleasant is the metro to builders in the event that they’re not that enterprise pleasant. Blue states principally, in the event that they’re not that pleasant to companies and to builders, it’s going to take longer for builders to construct new provide, which signifies that so long as demand is there, costs are prone to respect sooner than in pink states which can be simpler to construct.

Dave:
In order that’s some nice sensible suggestions for what’s occurring immediately. I’m curious, that is simply kind of opinion. I’m questioning how you are feeling going ahead given the scenario with tariffs as a result of we maintain listening to that it’s going to boost the price of development. I’ve heard all the pieces from 10 to twenty% relying available on the market, 10 grand, $20,000 per residence, which is quite a bit. And if this was some nice financial time the place wages are rising up quite a bit and wages are going up, however they’re not rising up like loopy that perhaps shoppers might eat that value. However I’m a skeptical that buyers might eat that value. Does that imply, do you assume builders are going to construct much less or what do you assume occurs from

Austin:
Right here? I feel it’s onerous to say total. On common, we should always see costs rising throughout the board, after which in fact we’ll have these localized variations, market to market

Dave:
Development costs will go up. However should you don’t know if individuals can take in that, does that imply that builders will simply take much less margin or are they going to strive? I suppose that’s the query to me, proper? That is kind of considered one of these elementary questions on the way forward for the housing market is that if costs go up completely and we don’t know. We don’t know what’s going to occur, but when they do, if tariffs keep in place indefinitely, costs go up in development after 2008, there’s this large decline in development, are we going to see one thing like that? Or do you assume it’s possible that builders maintain constructing and maintain including provide and simply take much less margin? Perhaps?

Austin:
I feel the extra friction that’s thrown at builders, the much less possible they’re to construct as a lot as they’re proper now. That’s all I can converse on at this second.

Dave:
Okay, truthful sufficient. All proper, that’s good to know. I’ll simply say I don’t know both. I’m simply speculating. These are sort of the large inquiries to me that I’m going to be actually be listening to within the subsequent couple of months is that if we begin to see some decline in constructing at a time the place we would see inflation, that to me is the recipe for actually speedy appreciation within the housing market. Once more, I’m not saying that occurs, however I might see a world the place that occurs within the subsequent couple of months. I might see a world the place tariffs aren’t as dangerous as the unique announcement, aren’t as intense as the unique announcement. Costs don’t go up that a lot, and perhaps there’s not that a lot inflation and perhaps constructing prices keep underneath management. So I feel you possibly can see either side of it. However I simply wish to share kind of why I’m eager about it’s because this provide lever actually issues and which manner it’s swinging backwards and forwards does matter for the housing market within the quick time period and the long run.
It’s only a tremendous vital component to the housing market, which is why we’re so joyful to have you ever on right here immediately, Austin. Thanks. All proper. That wraps up our deep dive into builder confidence with Austin Wolf. In case you are trying to keep forward of market tendencies and all the most recent headlines, make sure that to comply with available on the market wherever you get your podcasts, and likewise subscribe to our YouTube channel the place we share unique content material and evaluation. You can even really subscribe to our weekly publication as properly. We’ve got all this stuff. We don’t speak about all of it that a lot on the podcast, however we have now this YouTube channel. We’ve got a publication the place Austin retains you up to date and knowledgeable on all the pieces taking place out there immediately. So make sure that to subscribe to those issues that’re completely free, and we have now a ton extra info to maintain you on prime of all the pieces that issues. For actual property traders, I’m Dave Meyer. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you subsequent time.