5 Issues You Can’t Afford to Get Unsuitable When Analyzing Offers (Rookie Reply)

Ashley:
Investing out of state might be scary, however we are going to break down the steps to make your funding a assured one.

Tony:
We’ll additionally cowl what precisely you might want to account for when analyzing a deal, together with figuring out the most effective partnership for you.

Ashley:
Okay, so we acquired our first query on rookie reply as we speak. This query is, when wanting on the closing disclosure and also you see that hire will solely cowl the taxes and mortgage, if the property administration price is waived for a 12 months, is that price it? That may imply that the subsequent 12 months after the property administration price shouldn’t be waived, then you definately’re solely getting about $50 in cashflow. Would that be price it in a not so appreciating market? So right here’s some issues to think about for this query. The particular person row, completely nothing else is factored in comparable to Cap X enhancements like roofs, HVACs, often we like to avoid wasting a proportion of that, in order that’s nice that they known as that out. In addition they famous that is for a turnkey supplier who’s offering the property administration who’s saying they may waive one whole 12 months for the rental, which may very well be elevated by solely a certain quantity due upon the subsequent lease renewal. That is additionally a single household house within the Midwest. The hire can’t be elevated straight away, so I might solely obtain $50 cashflow after the insurance coverage taxes a mortgage. This is able to not embrace any upkeep. Just about the one motive why could be something greater than $50 is as a result of the property administration price is waived, however that’s solely throughout the first 12 months. Okay, so to sort of sum up this query is, is it price it? Ought to they buy this property? Tony, ought to we begin out with sort of explaining what a turnkey supplier is?

Tony:
Yeah, it’s a fantastic name. So turnkey suppliers, and I imagine we not too long ago did a reply particularly about turnkey, however turnkey suppliers are corporations who go on the market, they discover distressed property, they repair them up, they place sentence within them, after which they promote these totally leased up items to different buyers. These are known as turnkey suppliers as a result of principally on day one it’s turnkey. You don’t should do something to it, any work, and you’ll actually simply sort of get began money flowing on day one, hopefully. In order that’s what a turnkey is. However typically the draw back with turnkey, which is what I feel we’re seeing on this scenario is that your cashflow, relying on the property, relying in the marketplace, relying on the supplier, can get just a little squeezed, which is 50 bucks is I feel is what we’re seeing right here.

Ashley:
So the subsequent sort of query right here is, properly, I suppose we must always sort of go over bills. What different bills must be thought of? In order that they talked about that any sort of financial savings for CapEx, comparable to roofs, avac, HVACs, something like that isn’t included of their numbers. So for me, a normal rule of thumb is how outdated the property is, or if it’s been not too long ago transformed, saving a sure proportion. So if I’m shopping for a house that was constructed within the early 19 tons of, hasn’t had quite a lot of updates or transforming, I’m saving not less than 10% to cowl these enhancements on the property. If it was utterly transformed, I’m could also be saving 5%. Some conditions, like if I did the transform and I up to date so much, then possibly it’s solely going to be knocked down to three% of regardless of the rental earnings is every month. However you need to issue this stuff in together with the upkeep.
He had talked about any upkeep value would principally take away that $50 of money movement. And when you’ve got ever had a handyman or a service tech come out, often only for them to return out to your property is greater than $50. So yeah, the upkeep, sustaining the property, so it is a single household house, so most frequently you’re going to have the tenant handle the garden care, the snowplowing, issues like that. However there may very well be pest removing that you could have to cowl or pay for relying on what the lease settlement says too. Tony, is there another bills that you’d add? I feel the very last thing I can consider is bookkeeping bills. Except your property administration firm is making an allowance for these bills.

Tony:
Yeah, I really feel such as you sort of hit ’em all proper. At a enterprise stage, I feel you’re proper, bookkeeping tax preparation and tax submitting tax technique, when you’ve got an LLC, any charges related to that. So there’s at all times going to be some further value. So I imply is $50 in cashflow so much? Clearly not. I don’t suppose anybody’s going to retire or get tremendous excited off of $50, however I feel the one factor we don’t have from the particular person answering or asking this query is why are they doing this? They’re within the Midwest. So my assumption right here is that they’re not hyper-focused on appreciation. Usually in most Midwestern states, these aren’t the states which are recognized for appreciating. They’re sometimes recognized for higher cashflow. So if you happen to’re going into the Midwest with the main target of getting cashflow, however but you’re solely getting $50, I can’t think about what your funding into this property is, however it could needs to be a reasonably small funding for that fifty bucks monthly to be any form of cheap return in your funding.
So simply from that data, that doesn’t seem to be a deal to me. And the opposite factor too truly that I’m interested by is for the PM two waive their property administration price within the first 12 months, clearly it’s the turnkey supplier, in order that they’re getting cash upfront simply from the sale of the property to this investor. So I get that piece, however I additionally marvel is there any form of long-term contract that this investor is signing up for? As a result of I might assume that the majority pns most likely aren’t simply going to handle free of charge with none form of safety that they’ll have that second 12 months, that third 12 months doubtlessly. So I might suppose I might actually simply overview that to ensure, as a result of what occurs if you happen to get into 12 months two and that first 12 months was sort of shaky and also you’re like, man, I actually didn’t like working with these guys, however now you’re locked in for one more two or three or 5 years. So simply a few issues which are operating by way of my thoughts as I hear this query.

Ashley:
Yeah, I undoubtedly agree. I don’t suppose this feels like a fantastic deal, particularly if you happen to’re not getting appreciation. Possibly you want this property for the tax benefits and that’s all you care about is you need to have the ability to write it off, then possibly it might be just right for you. However I feel if you happen to’re not getting cashflow otherwise you’re not getting appreciation, however undoubtedly do your analysis on that and see if there’s an appreciation play. Additionally, when can the rents be elevated on the property or is there any sort of worth add that you may do? For instance, turning the eating room into one other bed room to truly enhance the income that means? Might you hire out the storage for storage? So see if there’s another income potentials, however I might say this most likely isn’t an funding that I might need to do. One factor to remember, if that is the one means that you could get began is by going by way of turnkey supplier, I might go and discuss to different turnkey suppliers and evaluate what their closing disclosures appear to be, evaluate what are the prices which are related to utilizing them, what are they charging, issues like that.
So you possibly can evaluate the totally different turnkey suppliers to, okay, we have now to take our first advert break, however we will probably be again shortly.

Tony:
All proper guys, welcome again. We’re right here with our subsequent query in as we speak’s rookie reply. So this query says, BP neighborhood, I’m getting into the true property investing world by way of partnerships. Ding, ding, ding. Alright, Ashley and I like speaking about partnerships. Myself and my buddy, we’ve been associates for greater than 15 years and we determined to get into actual property by way of a multifamily home hack. We plan on pooling our cash for a down fee and shutting prices. If one among us can qualify for the mortgage quantity, then we’ll select to solely have one particular person apply for the mortgage. So the primary query is, how does the opposite declare possession on the property? My understanding is that this may be carried out by maintaining the property in an LLC and being 50 50 companions within the LLC. Are there another methods to assert possession with out the LLC?
What’s a greater option to go about this? Query quantity two, if we plan to purchase a second property one or two years down the street, how would lenders method the underwriting? After which query quantity three, do we have to be careful for any pitfalls sooner or later for scaling our portfolio collectively or individually? Plenty of good questions right here Earlier than I feel me and Ashley leap in. We acquired to present a pleasant plug right here for our guide on actual property partnerships. So for people who don’t know, Ash and I co-authored a guide with BiggerPockets known as Actual Property Partnerships, and you’ll head over to biggerpockets.com/partnerships to select up a duplicate of that guide. So Ashley, let’s hit the primary query right here, or first a part of this query. If one particular person is on the mortgage, how the opposite particular person truly present possession of the property?

Ashley:
So for this, I feel there’s totally different ways in which you are able to do it. We will sort of go into that as to the right way to construction is it must be in your private title, must be in an LLC three way partnership. However the way in which that you just personal the property is if you’re on the deed. So you may not be on the mortgage, however you may nonetheless be on the deed. So whether or not you could have possession of an LLC or you could have a three way partnership settlement, or it’s your private title, you might want to have your title on the deed or that three way partnership settlement saying that you’re personal a part of the three way partnership that owns the home. Okay, so that’s the way you declare possession is having a proper to the deed of the property, ensuring that you just’re on the deed. On this scenario, this property is a home hack that they’re doing collectively.
There’s one factor you have to be cautious of. When my sister was doing her home hack, I couldn’t give her cash for the down fee and say that she needed to pay me again. You need to use your individual funds or it needs to be a present from any person and it needs to be a member of the family often. So simply since you’ve been associates for 15 years, I’m undecided a normal FHA mortgage or typical mortgage would permit if that is your main residence for the funds to be offered by any person else to truly shut on the property, they’ll need to confirm. Tony, have you learnt if that’s true for typical or is that simply an FHA rule that you need to use your individual funds for a down fee or a present from a member of the family?

Tony:
And guys, after we say typical, we simply imply something that’s backed by Fannie and Freddie, proper? The massive, they’re not technically authorities entities, however the people who insure quite a lot of these mortgages which are going out to most of the people. I feel one of many belongings you made an outstanding level ash in regards to the mortgage and the deed being totally different, only one factor as a result of in addition they stated that, ought to we put this in an LLC? Simply phrase of warning, or possibly not phrase of warning, however simply one thing to consider. Usually once you’re doing a home act, the rationale that folks like to accommodate act is due to the kind of debt that you just get entry to. And Ashley simply talked about that I like utilizing an FHA, however with these varieties of debt, sometimes it’s acquired to be in your private title. So even if you happen to guys created this LLC, you possibly can nonetheless quite a lot of occasions run the earnings and the bills by way of that entity. However the precise deed would present Ashley and Tony, proper title could be us collectively on that deed collectively. So I don’t know if the possession within the LLC is essentially going to influence the possession declare on this property.

Ashley:
And I suppose actually you need to work out the way you need to finance the property as a result of that’s going to actually play into what you’re truly in a position to do. So if you happen to’re each doing the home hack, if you happen to each need this to be your main residence, which I don’t keep in mind, does it say they’re each to reside in there?

Tony:
I imagine so. It appears that evidently means.

Ashley:
Yeah. So if you happen to’re each residing there, then I don’t see an issue with you each splitting the down fee, you each going onto the deed, you each being, you possibly can have one particular person on the mortgage. So even with my sister’s home hack, I’m on the deed, however I’m not on the mortgage and I gifted her the down fee fund. So you possibly can undoubtedly do it the place you’re on the deed and also you’re not on the mortgage with one among you if one particular person qualifies. And I actually like that technique that you just’re going to try to do it that means. Simply be sure to have some sort of settlement the place it states that you just each are chargeable for the mortgage as a result of whether or not it’s you or the opposite person who’s placing the debt of their title, in the end if somebody doesn’t pay you, say the mortgage is in your title and your buddy or no matter stops paying, it’s going to be you personally that the mortgage goes to go after and say they foreclose on the home. You’re each dropping out on the home, but it surely’s going to have an effect on your credit score rating and harm your credit score if mortgage funds are missed. So be sure to have some sort of safety or safety towards that too, otherwise you actually, actually belief the particular person.

Tony:
And I feel that sort of ties in properly to the second a part of this query. So it’s like if we plan to purchase a second property one or two years down the street, how would lenders method the underwriting? So like Ashley talked about, if one particular person is on the mortgage, each of you’re on the deed, one particular person’s on the mortgage, each of you’re on the deed. Once you go to get that subsequent property, despite the fact that each of you’re on the deed, solely the one who’s on the mortgage solely their debt to earnings will probably be impacted by this primary home S act. So if Ashley and Tony purchase a duplex collectively, but it surely’s simply Ashley who’s on the mortgage, we’re each on the deed. After we go to purchase that second property, my DTI goes to point out zero by way of mortgages and Ashley will present the home act that we have now collectively.
Now, say each of you go on the mortgage collectively as a result of possibly you possibly can’t qualify by yourselves once you go to purchase that subsequent property, since each of you’re on the mortgage, and truly verify me if I’m flawed right here, however since each of you’re on the mortgage, underwriting doesn’t break up that in half. If the mortgage is 2000 bucks, it doesn’t say, okay, Ashley’s chargeable for a thousand bucks monthly and Tony’s chargeable for a thousand bucks monthly. It says Tony’s chargeable for 2000 bucks monthly and Ashley’s chargeable for 2000 bucks monthly, despite the fact that each of you might be sharing that value. And the rationale why is as a result of the lender who’s doing the underwriting, they’re like, properly, we don’t know who this different particular person is, proper? Despite the fact that each of you guys technically apply collectively, they’re like, we don’t know who this different particular person is. You might be at all times accountable on the finish of the day for ensuring that mortgage fee is made. In order that’s why it is vitally, it’s useful if you happen to guys can get permitted individually, in any other case you’ll each get double dinged for these mortgages.

Ashley:
Yeah, that’s 100, right. So it sort of stinks as a result of now that’s being accounted towards each of you. So if you happen to do go and get one other property, they’re it as you each are chargeable for $2,000 every as an alternative of a thousand and a thousand. So it may possibly have an effect on your debt to earnings on the property. After which the final query right here is do we have to look ahead to any pitfalls in future for scaling our portfolio collectively or individually? So the factor that I might need to have in place is a few sort of working settlement or three way partnership settlement. Even if you’re doing this in your private title, have some sort of settlement in place the place you might be writing out what occurs sooner or later. And Tony, I at all times use what you could have carried out for example, as in once you tackle a accomplice, you place in there a 5 12 months exit plan. So do you need to clarify to everybody what that’s and the way this particular person ought to use this to guard themselves from many falling outs or pitfalls?

Tony:
Yeah, the 5 12 months exit plan I feel is without doubt one of the smartest issues we’ve carried out in our actual property enterprise by way of partnering with different buyers. Once more, a part of the way in which that we constructed our portfolio was discovering actually good offers after which soliciting these offers to of us that we felt could be good companions for us. And quite a lot of these individuals we’d by no means met earlier than, these are individuals who we might meet somewhere else by way of totally different means. So despite the fact that we had an excellent preliminary dialog, who is aware of if down the street we might take pleasure in persevering with to work collectively? In order that was the genesis of the partnership sort of five-year clause. So principally what it states is that on the finish of the fifth 12 months of the partnership, the default possibility, the sort of default motion that must be taken is that we promote the property. The one means that the cell is averted is that if each events, each companions agree to increase for one more 12 months after which 12 months later the identical factor occurs. So yearly, thereafterwards, we have now one other alternative to reevaluate that partnership to see if it is sensible to maneuver ahead. We truly haven’t wanted to leverage that in any respect but. Most of our companions that we have now are literally fairly strong individuals. However it’s good to have simply in case issues do go south, there’s a simple exit for each of you.

Ashley:
Rookies, we need to thanks a lot for being right here and we’re so near hitting 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. We might find it irresistible if you happen to aren’t subscribed already, if you happen to would head over and discover Actual Property Ricky on YouTube and observe us. We’ve got to take one last advert break and we’ll be again after this. Alright, let’s leap again in. Okay, as we speak’s final query is, Hey all I’m simply getting began and in my first deal I provided greater than what the property appraised for. What ought to I be when attempting to think about an applicable provide, particularly if I can’t see the property since I’m investing out of state? Okay, making a proposal. How do you determine what the property is price after which to seek out that disappointment of the property not appraising. So let’s sort of work by way of this course of right here.
You set a proposal on a property, the provide is accepted. Often there will probably be a contingency if you happen to’re utilizing financing that you could again out of the contract if the financial institution is not going to lend you the quantity that you just acknowledged you’re borrowing. So if you happen to put in your contract, you’re borrowing, you’re doing 80% typical financing with the financial institution. If the financial institution says we’re solely going to lend you 70%, that may be typically a option to get out of your contract and the contract falls aside. There’s additionally a spot too that your agent might fill an rate of interest. So if the rate of interest, if you happen to put needs to be under 6%, clearly it needs to be one thing cheap or else the vendor might be not going to signal it. But when abruptly in a single day rates of interest leap to 10%, you may say, look, the financial institution can not give me that price.
I’m going to get out of the deal. So this will additionally go for what the property appraises for. So the financial institution goes and does an appraisal on the property to see its worth, after which it says, okay, it appraised for 100 thousand {dollars}. We’re doing a standard mortgage of 80%, so we are going to lend you 80,000. Effectively, if the financial institution says, you realize what? It solely appraised for 90,000, so we are able to’t offer you that 80,000, that’s when you need to make the choice, are you going to give you the remainder of the cash? So make an even bigger down fee on the property? Are you going to attempt to renegotiate with the sellers of the property or are you going to again out of the deal? So it appears to be like like on this scenario, they will need to have backed out of the deal as a result of they’re questioning what to do going ahead to truly work out what an precise applicable provide is. So Tony, the very first thing that I might’ve carried out on this scenario is dispute the appraisal. Not less than try to try this, dispute the appraisal, attempt to renegotiate with the sellers.

Tony:
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. And I feel each of us have had experiences the place value determinations got here in decrease than what we had anticipated. And yeah, if you happen to imagine that the appraisal was flawed, then yeah, it is vitally cheap to exit and say like, Hey, listed below are some comps, some comparable gross sales that I discovered that I really feel are higher matched than the comparable gross sales that the arai discovered. As a result of typically you guys, appraisers are coming from, possibly they don’t know the world as properly, proper? Possibly they’re coming from someplace just a little bit additional out. They simply put this appraisal, they have been nonetheless on work, no matter it could be, however they don’t know that space extremely properly. And typically you may know that space higher than the appraiser does. So if you happen to can level out, hey, you picked a comp that was three miles away that bought for much less, however right here’s one which bought extra not too long ago, that’s two miles away.
Now you’ve acquired some ammo to possibly to actually contest that appraisal. And one different factor say that the appraiser says, Nope, my appraisal is ideal. Nothing right here wants to vary one other route. You may at all times go down, and that is clearly just a little bit extra of a nuclear possibility, however if you happen to change lenders, and I don’t know if that is legislation or possibly simply greatest observe, however lenders can’t use the appraiser appraisal from a unique lending establishment. So if you happen to change lenders instantly, there needs to be one other appraisal that will get ordered. Now if you happen to’re working with the vendor, sometimes sellers don’t need to push again closing, but when it’s, Hey, both we’re going to shut just a little bit later or we’re not going to shut as a result of the appraisal, they could be just a little bit extra keen to working with the totally different lender. So simply one other option to put some extra strain on the appraising course of to ensure it will get carried out the precise means.
Ashley, I feel one different factor that you just talked about as properly that’s tremendous vital is that typically a low appraisal can work in your favor. You simply should have the arrogance to have the ability to leverage that as a bargaining chip with the vendor as a result of it feels like possibly you probably did run your numbers and possibly it did make sense on the buy value, so it was an excellent deal. In order that doesn’t essentially imply the worth isn’t there, however if you happen to ran the numbers, you appreciated the deal, everybody agreed, then possibly it’s a whole lot. However possibly it’s simply the truth that the appraisal didn’t come again the place you needed it to. So I might go to the vendor and say, look, Mr. And Mrs. Vendor, I’m very motivated to purchase your private home. I find it irresistible, the numbers work. Nevertheless, if I bumped into this problem with my appraisal, chances are high the subsequent purchaser can be going to run into this problem with their appraisal.
So what’s in your greatest curiosity? Is it giving me the ten, 20, $30,000 low cost on the acquisition value so we are able to nonetheless shut subsequent week? Or do you need to undergo the method once more of taking the itemizing down, relisting it, having one other purchaser who can hopefully get the precise appraisal? Possibly they do, possibly they don’t. And also you’re on this very same place, one other 60 or 90 days from now. And quite a lot of occasions you will get sellers who, in the event that they’re motivated sufficient, possibly they may come down and meet you on the value that you just wanted, or not less than possibly offer you, Hey, let’s meet within the center. However I feel you’ve acquired to be assured sufficient to ask that query. For those who’ve acquired an excellent agent, I feel they need to be capable to negotiate that dialog for you as properly.

Ashley:
Yeah, and that sort of leads into the subsequent factor I needed to convey up is constructing a group. It talked about this particular person is investing out of state, to allow them to’t truly go and see the property, whether or not it’s an agent otherwise you want some sort of boots on the bottom particular person that may truly go into the property and be your eyes, but in addition take one million footage of the property, take video of the property. We’ve had Nate Robbins on earlier than on the podcast, when he goes to a property, he takes the images such as you’re strolling by way of the home principally as he takes a step, he’s taking an image and turns round, every room takes an image of the doorframe, so that you’re getting into a unique room after which all of that’s collected and it’s despatched to his accomplice after which his accomplice builds out the scope of labor within the rehab from simply the image.
So it undoubtedly might be carried out, however simply sort of getting an thought of that is what we must always provide on the property based mostly on what you’re seeing. And he at all times likes to do images as a result of it’s simpler to zoom in on issues than it’s on video. However they wish to have the video too, to sort of get the movement of the home as you undergo it. They usually try this for the inside and the outside of the property too. So whether or not that’s a property supervisor that you just discover within the space that you just say, Hey, I need to discover a property, I need to do that by way of you guys. Do you could have somebody in your group that would stroll properties for me? Possibly you do it free of charge wanting your small business, or possibly they’ll cost a flat price, which is unquestionably price it to have the boots on the bottom.
You could possibly go to the BiggerPockets boards, you may submit hate anybody on this space. And it’s not such as you actually should, I suppose, say belief the particular person. It’s not like they’re getting into into your property, they’re going together with your agent or they’re going alongside and seeing these properties wanting and taking footage and providing you with their suggestions. And if it’s not tremendous detailed, then hey, yow will discover another person to do it too. However I feel there’s lots of people wanting to be taught who would love to simply go and stroll homes and work with one other investor to see what they’re searching for, issues like that. I suppose, Tony, the very last thing piece I might add to that is what’s the price of a airplane ticket to go and see this property? Typically paying 200 bucks for a spherical journey, airfare may very well be price it to go and arrange an entire bunch of properties, showings in in the future or one weekend or one thing to fly on the market and to truly have a look at them.

Tony:
I couldn’t agree extra. Proper, and clearly there’s worth in lengthy distance investing and constructing that group, but when it is sensible, I feel there’s at all times worth in sort of getting eyes on it your self as properly. However I suppose only one final thought for me as properly truly, as a result of the query says, what ought to I be when attempting to think about an applicable provide? You will get an excellent guess of what you suppose the property will appraise for as you possibly can undergo the method of discovering comparable gross sales your self, however appraising a property is an element artwork, half signal, so it’s just about unimaginable to know right down to the greenback what the appraisal will come again at. So so long as you, the investor, the client, do your due diligence upfront, you’re utilizing instruments just like the BiggerPockets calculators, you’re getting quotes from insurance coverage brokers to be sure to know what your insurance coverage is, you’re procuring round to get the most effective debt that you could. So long as you’re controlling all of these issues, then I really feel like you might be following the precise course of to make an applicable provide. However don’t really feel such as you did one thing flawed just because the appraisal didn’t come again the place you needed it to. So only a little bit of a mindset shift for the rookies which are possibly experiencing an identical problem.

Ashley:
And if you need assist analyzing your deal higher go to the BiggerPockets calculators as a result of they present you precisely each single expense that it’s best to want. So if you happen to do suppose it’s a deal evaluation factor and never truly an appraisal factor, that’s simply one other useful resource that you could sort of go, as a result of the numbers don’t lie. So long as you’re verifying what the numbers are, go by that, and that’s what you have to be making your provide on, not what you count on the property to appraise for, until you need to go and also you need to add worth and then you definately need to flip it otherwise you need to refinance it. However simply if you happen to’re buying that property, like Tony stated, the appraisal couldn’t be right and an appraisal, it’s an artwork type. You could possibly have three totally different appraisers go to the property and every offer you totally different numbers on it.

Tony:
Three totally different, yeah.

Ashley:
Okay. Effectively, we have now a particular announcement. We’ve got a rookie e-newsletter that’s being despatched out each single week. Tony and I writing it ourselves, and we’re attempting to present you guys a lot worth, some studying materials and a few enjoyable issues to find out about actual property investing and what’s occurring within the information so that you guys can keep updated as actual property buyers in as we speak’s markets. You may head over to biggerpockets.com, hit the get began tab and also you’ll see newsletters and it’s acquired just a little new shiny button subsequent to it, hit on newsletters, and you’ll subscribe proper there to the Rookie E-newsletter. We will’t wait to listen to you guys suggestions. Additionally, if you wish to reply to that electronic mail, it will get despatched proper again to Tony and I. So any questions or any suggestions you could have on the e-newsletter or belongings you would love for us to write down about, please tell us. Effectively, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us on this week’s Rookie reply. When you’ve got questions, head over to the BiggerPockets boards, submit your query there. I’m Ashley. And he’s Tony. And we’ll see you guys on the subsequent Actual Property Rookie podcast.